King Springs Rear Spring Clunk

[ruimond]

Ok so just creating a more specfic thread for some feedback. Incase people don't see what i was asking in my thread.

So i got king springs installed today, feels good..looks much better. But..my rear springs or something seems to clunk/tonk over some bumps or even when im turning a corner at a medium pace. Also could hear it a little when i braked abit harder.

RPW did the install....but did confirm it is coming from the rears only and the fronts are fine....but it was late and closing so they couldn't put it on the hoist to recheck it. I'll be going back tommorow morning to put it on the hoist to recheck it. But anyhelp to what may be causing it would be good.

Cheers

[banana]

i got coilovers and it does that every now and then on uneven terrain or corners when driving slowly.

shouldnt be too worried

[oodLes]

I can tell you right now, none of us are going to diagnose it before RPW do tomorrow.

[ruimond]

i got coilovers and it does that every now and then on uneven terrain or corners when driving slowly.

shouldnt be too worried

Oh ok, but urs are coilovers so probably something else. :(

Hopefully its an easy fix anyway.


I can tell you right now, none of us are going to diagnose it before RPW do tomorrow.

Yeah but worth a shot at some feedback. From peoples past experiences. Oh well....yeh i'll prob just wait it out then anywya..nothing i can do. Was just curious. Hehe.

[rokkuchan]

had similar problem, coro and odyssey found on mine that a coil was actually rubbing on the tray causing a lot of noise. you may need to twist the coil to a better position so it doesn't rub metal to metal.

[Corosith]

No harm in trying to diagnose the issue at hand - here's my comments copied from another thread.

When we had a look at Rokkuchan's springs last weekend, his were making clunking noises as well, turns out the bottom of the spring was rubbing slightly on the wheel side of the spring cradle on the torsion beam. You could see some surface rust and more recent rub marks on probably the last section of the coil and on the torsion beam from where it had been rubbing.

The fix was to simply undo the shock mount and drop the suspension down enough to turn the spring around whilst still fitted to the colt. I think the issue is with mainly to do with the spring being loose in its cradle when the suspension is at full droop, say when you go up a steep driveway or over a curb and get the rear wheel off the ground, hence possibly allowing the spring to slightly move around on its mount, even though it is unlikely that it will fall out. It could also be due to not being placed properly in the springs mount in the first place, easy fix though.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3835/springrub.jpg

[colTwes]

i got coilovers and it does that every now and then on uneven terrain or corners when driving slowly.

shouldnt be too worried

same shit here lotsa noise have to get it checkt sometime

[fauxpas]

Regarding the clunking... Check the muffler near the spring... They are known to bump against each other... Give the muffler a wiggle...

[LG1]

Iv got the same springs, no noise. so try what Corosith and rokkuchan suggest and fauxpas as they know their stuff.

word.

LG1

[ruimond]

Yeah shouldn't be making any noise LG1.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Will suggest it to them. Heading back to the workshop soon.

[ruimond]

They ended up turning the springs around so the 3 more compressed bits of coil sat on the bottom of the spring seat. I dont get the clunks anymore but noticed there were a few scapes on the coil.

How are the rear coils seated for those with kings? i guess it doesnt matter that much.. since the clunk seems to be gone.

Ill check through some threads when im home. Internet on my sis mobile is so slow. lol.

[ruimond]

Looked at silman's thread...seems his is installed the original way mine was installed. But now mine has the 3 tighter coils on the base. I read with progressive springs it doesn't matter to much which orientation its in? Just my main concern was wheather it would move come out or something...but seems firmly in the rubber seats.

These are silman's:

http://www.rcolt.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2853&d=1288085602

Mines basically the other way around. lol.

[ruimond]

Read a few other sites about progressive springs....Seems it doens't really matter which way the tighter coil sits. lol. Both ways will still work and there's nothing wrong with either way or something. Either way it will still load up stiffer when cornering hard apparently. Meh who knows. As long as its safe is all that i was concerned about. Feels much better when i corner now.

[Corosith]

That's not right and should be corrected, solved one issue only to create another???:confused:

[odysseyesm]

Read a few other sites about progressive springs....Seems it doens't really matter which way the tighter coil sits. lol. Both ways will still work and there's nothing wrong with either way or something. Either way it will still load up stiffer when cornering hard apparently. Meh who knows. As long as its safe is all that i was concerned about. Feels much better when i corner now.

I'm not 100% sure but I think with the Colt springs can only go one way. The inner diameter of the springs where they locate on the chassis and the bottom spring seat is slightly different.
I'm pretty sure that the rubber bush in the top will only go in one way. The springs are made to suit our car but on other cars both ends of the spring may be the same diameter.
From the spring performance POV it doesn't matter which way is up, only how they locate on the car.

[ruimond]

Ok, spent like the whole afternoon trying to fix my rear springs with RColtGuy09 (James). But seems that when i try copy the way its put in like silman has it, we tried 90deg anti-clockwise in the workshop manual, and some other position. It definatly improved over the original first time it was installed...but was still getting the occasional clunk...as it seemed to be compressing to much or something. We noticed that the "King Springs" Logo was printed upside down (you would have to turn ur head upside down to read it) - when the closer coils were fitted at the top.

But when you have the closer coils on the base and the spread out coils going to the top. You can read the "King Springs" Print and wording without turning ur head upside down. So i assume that's the correct way. Having the writing that way.

We ended up putting the closer coils at the base again...and doesn't seem to clunk? or hasn't so far anyway. Im guessing coz when it compresses its already at the stiffer end so it compresses abit less, thus doesn't rub? Also what i noticed was the end of the coil for both sides look like the same size anyway as it gets smaller towards the centre. So it would seem you could fit it either way anyway? Also the Rubber seats fit firmly onto both sides even when u switch them.

I was looking for photos of members with king springs and stumbled upon "Andrew's" Ride, which has King Springs too, and noticed on his photograph which was at a lower angle for his photoshoot that the King Springs had the more compressed/closer side at the base of the seat as well.

Not sure if Kings decided to manufacture the springs differently now? or i may have got one that was made the wrong way up. lol. It is definatly the right part number as its printed KLCR-54 or something on it. So im not sure it had me stumbed for awhile.

But i guess i'll have to leave the closer coils at the base for now and see how it is. If anything it will probably have a stiffer ride, but i think it feels ok anyway. At least it seems to have no clunk this way, but will keep a listen for it.

[Corosith]

I'm thinking your issues might have something to do with the fact that these springs were originally made for the N/A colt rather than the Ralliart Colt where the rear torsion beam design differs slightly from the Ralliart model and so does the spring design - this is why the Ultra Racing rear sway bar does not fit the Ralliart Colt properly, due to the differing torsion beam design.

Whether there are real differences between the design of the actual metalwork around the spring mount, who knows, but both models definitely have different spring dimensions, maybe you should check the differences between these and the King springs.
Stock Colt Spring Specs
Wire diameter, 4A9 10mm, 4G15 11mm
Average outside diameter, 4A9 75mm − 107mm − 75mm, 4G15 111mm
Free length, 4A9 301mm, 4G15 283mm

Sorry about the pic, it's a bit small!
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/81/springu.png

[ruimond]

Haha i think i had enough of taking them out and putting them back. Just doesn't want to work as well that way for some odd reason. Should be fine like this anyway i hope...sits in the groove on the base and top fine. And rubber pads are placed same way as the diagram too. Physical fitment seems ok either way up, so i assume its simalar to the stock measurements. But not sure how the dimensions would compare. I don't see how they could be any different to what other people have. But the only person that has it the way i have it is member "Andrew" i think. But hasn't replied to confirm the position. But from his photo it looks like it anyways.

But then again aren't pedders made for the NA Colt too..so are the Kings but yeh....i don't get it. Its definatly touching the beam or something when it has the softer side down on rebounds, seems to get crashy. When u look at the metal work around the spring seat, it does seem that when you place the softer / more spread apart coil there it does look like it would touch the metal on hard bumps, but when the tighter coils are on the base, it has no where enough spring or doesn't seem as close to hit any of the metal surrounds of the spring seat.

We couldn't really see anything else that could be touching when we looked around it. Only the metal bits u showed me in the previous photo. Or the actual spring base metal it sits in.

EDIT: Actually i see what u mean by different dimensions now. 4A9 is the Aus spec colts, where as 4G15 (obviously ours) haha, but yeh i re-read it and now i see what u mean. (They may have accidently manufactured mine to a slightly diff spec accidently possibly). I'm guessing? Lol.

[silman]

I installed mine with the wider coils at the bottom as I'm sure that's the way the factory had it. Despite your low k's have you checked the shock is ok?

The colt code for kings springs fronts is KCFL-53
The colt code for kings springs rears is KCRL-54

[ruimond]

Yeah i had the same code printed on mine. Shock should be ok i'm guessing. I never had any weird noises or issues with it absorbing bumps with the stock springs. I don't think their leaking or anything, as they look fine.

When you put your rears in, is your Kings Logo Wording printed upside down? Or can you read yours straight on without turning ur head upside down?

[silman]

I just checked the car, i can't see the code printed anywhere on the springs. Ultimately though, the way the code is stamped makes no difference, the wider coils should be at the bottom as per the stock spring position.

[odysseyesm]

With my car, writing on one side is upside down (LH I think) and the other side is right way up. I doubt if it's for orientation/fitting purposes. If they were going to do that and it mattered which they had to go they would've put an arrow or something on there I think.

[ruimond]

No code at all? Haha hrmm weird.

On mine its right way up for both, when i have it the way i have it now.

But yeah i suppose the print wouldn't matter, but yeh it doesn't really look that much wider at all, when u compare it to the tighter coiled side as the centre of the coil seems to get smaller on both sides and seems roughly the same diameter... But for some reason it makes a difference, when fliped. lol. As long as the spring stays in the seat on the top and bottom, i suppose the spring can't really tell which way is up or down. So technically it would still work the same i guess?

[silman]

I can't see how you could install them properly the opposite way to how my car is pictured, the top hat looks far to narrow for the wider coil to sit in there. Can you put a pic up of what it looks like now?

You could always call up Kings tomorrow for clarification.

[ruimond]

The top hat definatly sits in the wider coil lol, as it goes from wide coil to a smaller coil. As does the the tighter coil side.

I'll try take a pic to show you.

[ruimond]

Took a pic of the top and bottom just then in the garage.

Top:
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5205/topspring.jpg

Bottom:
http://imageshack.us/m/812/7485/bottomspring.jpg

[silman]

The bottom rubber does not look like it is seated properly. I would call Kings tomorrow to confirm though I haven't had any knocks with mine installed the opposite way, and this reflected the stock spring installation

[ruimond]

Yeah the bottom edge comes out a little, but the remainder of the rubber seems to be seated ok on the spring. Must have accidently put it to much to one side. Think that happens even when u place the bottom rubber on the other side. Just the way the spring was turned when it was seated, and that side happened to hang out. We were making it so the end coil faced us. (90degree's anti-clockwise). I'll blame Rcoltguy09 since he's the one who pushed it into the seat. LOL jk james. :P

Or did you mean the bottom coil does not seat in the groove properly? Think it looks ok.

Guess i'll check with kings. But even if they do say its meant to be the opposite way. That's not really going to help. Haha. Urggg, oh well.

[ruimond]

Called up King Spings head office today, spoke to some guy.

Pretty much the conversion went like this with replies from him:

"Springs can be orientated either way as it won't make any difference as they will still work the same"

"There isn't any issues or safety concern having them the opposite way around"

"The instructions say upper coil up because when they are at the top it is a bit quieter"

"With the upper coil on top it is somewhat visually better" - Haha, that was a bit of an odd answer but anyway....think he meant from behind the car what you could see, it would look more uniform.

Anyway that's from kings direct so definately feel safer now running it this way. Haha.

[sabeli]

whats better king springs or pedders, witch ones are harder and lower, helllpppp :)

[wombat]

Hey man, from what i can gather from other ppl's feedback, pedders are slightly lower than the kings, and also sit more 'levelled' once installed compared to kings. The front kings sit a little higher, so wheels don't look as flush with the guards compared with the pedders.

Lovells also do springs, and from what a couple of people have said, they sit somewhere between pedders and kings.

[sabeli]

cool thanks for info do you know how hard they are? i dont want something lowered and its going to be soft as stock springs then it will start scraping the guards i hate that might as well cut the stock spring a be a commie lol ;)