Your dealbreakers

[Steve-B]

Hey guys,
lookin for Your reasons why You think Christianity is ludicrous..

I know some of you will want to reply in this thread, and some will. But I'd really like all the suggestions and dealbreakers in the one place where we can read through them all orderly.*

dealbreakers - Christ Church St Ives 645 (http://645.christchurch.com.au/dealbreakers)

cheers,
steve

[luke]

Wtf????

[Steve-B]

It's a poll for people to voice their problems with Christianity, so let rip.

[Corosith]

Ummm, what's the motive behind this?? For people to join the group or to diss non-beleivers??:confused:

[Steve-B]

I'm polling the most common reasons people hate or dislike Christianity so we can write a series for our church.

Your replies are anonymous and we don't collect any details from you..
I won't show up to your door coro..lol

[Corosith]

No worries Steve - lol! Personally I don't dislike or hate any religion, so long as they don't push it on me that's fine;). No point in blaming the way the world is on any religion in particular though, there are many factors at play!

[Steve-B]

No probs coro, just lookin for some feedback from ppl, nothin sinister, just plain feedback.

[Macca]

No worries Steve - lol! Personally I don't dislike or hate any religion, so long as they don't push it on me that's fine;). No point in blaming the way the world is on any religion in particular though, there are many factors at play!

i agree totally there, and i will add im a science sort of person, i dont beleve some magical person created this place, and we are not alone in the universe, in other words evolution, big bang theroy ect.

some of the answer's in that poll are funny as!

Christianity oppresses homosexuals

You can't believe in a God who wants to send everyone to hell I hope he sends me

[Steve-B]

Thanks mac-dizzle

[why_bother]

this poll's like some nerd in a classroom asking why nobody wants to hang out with him :)


cmon guys, what's wrong with religion? be your best friend, promise!


agree with coro though, don't knock on my door.. i don't knock on yours!

[Frogman]

I was born into a catholic family and went to private schools... I had always felt pressured into believing that there was a superior being to us... I now believe in nothing... I was reared with good values and morals and I'll continue to be decent.

[lovecolt]

I believe religion is something we need to self discovered and not to make believe......unless you are someone that's mentally weak.

Most of the time, people that are converted, are also mainly due to mental weakness anyway. This is what happen to one of my friend where she's totally not into Christian unless a major family incident. Now, she's like the most faithful follower than alot other long term Christian till the point that there's always a "God says...." in almost all her sentence.

Anyway, i'm with Coro/TMR. Don't push me and i wouldn't push you back.

[alba]

why do the mormons always knock at like 8.30am on sundays? i've usually only just got home from being out on the turps and then i've got to deal with people who want to talk about sinning and god lol

[Turbo_Tim]

I personally don't really see any truth in religion.

I find it difficult to have faith in any higher being following the amount of science related study I have done.
I dislike the way that religion will work to discredit all other theories due to inconsistancies (i.e. evolution) and then put forward a fairly unbelievable theory of their own which only reference is an 'old book' of dubious reliability.

I dislike being labelled bad or similar because I do not believe in god. I have morals and standards and feel I contribute back to society sufficiently(or will do in the future).

[All-hope-is-gone]

why do the mormons always knock at like 8.30am on sundays? i've usually only just got home from being out on the turps and then i've got to deal with people who want to talk about sinning and god lol

i think thats the best time to convert someone.. when your hungover ,drunk and feeling guilty about something you did the night before haha

[Darthrev]

This is my 'insurance' view on religion:

You hope your house never burns down but you insure it with a company you select and hope they pay out... if the worst ever happens.

Likewise you insure your car. You select a company and hope they pay out when you ever have a crash and write your car off one day.

Some people like to insure their soul. There are many companies/ie religions they can insure their soul with. (ie Catholics, Muslims etc...) if there is a heaven and they have picked the right religious insurance company they should pay out and their soul should get to heaven (and if you are lucky get to work in a garden in the sunshine while a line of thousands of virgins que up waiting for you to shag them senslessly ;)). If there is no heaven well atleast they were happy in their lives believing they were going there!. *But if there is an actual God and a Heaven and then there must be a Hell :eek: . If you are not insured then you are likely going to Hell :eek: :(

If you now decide to find a religion to insure your soul: FFS please don't get insured with the Mormons - there is enough of those door knocking peanuts already ;)

How many times do you think 'Oh my God' when you are nearly have a car crash or see something or experience something that defies belief. You could find yourself crying 'Oh my God' as your soul enters Hell after you die... only it will be too late then! as your genitals are being burnt with a blow torch then cut off with a rusty butter knife as your eyes are ripped out and boiling water poured into your empty sockets, and etc... etc... you receive daily endless horror. No doubt you will be thinking 'why the f*#k didn't i get my soul insured' :rolleyes: .

At the end of the day, your soul is either insured or it is not, it is your choice and you should feel no pressure to take up a religion and get your 'soul' insured unless you desire too. Just pray there is not a Hell as described by a lot of religions... er although I guess you will have no one to pray to?

[Turbo_Tim]

Religions and scare tactics, making money for thousands of years.

[husky510]

you have to have a "alot" more faith to beleive that we evolved from nothing than to believe in 'a' God!

[Zadok]

I personally don't really see any truth in religion.

I find it difficult to have faith in any higher being following the amount of science related study I have done.
I dislike the way that religion will work to discredit all other theories due to inconsistancies (i.e. evolution) and then put forward a fairly unbelievable theory of their own which only reference is an 'old book' of dubious reliability.

I dislike being labelled bad or similar because I do not believe in god. I have morals and standards and feel I contribute back to society sufficiently(or will do in the future).

I find this point of view ironic, as it is exactly what the scientific viewpoint is about, stating evolution as fact when it is likely never able to be proven (similar to religious beliefs). I find that in line with individualistic societies such as our own, we tend to view things as either/or. So if God exists, science is wrong, and if science is right then God doesn't exist. I believe this to be faulty thinking, with my personal opinion involving a belief in God, a severe dislike for religions, and a liking of science (bar parts of the evolutionary theory, for which I believe adaption to be true, but a species becoming another species to be flawed logic). Any belief system is a bit like an arsehole though, everyone has one, and everyone thinks that everyone else's stinks :P

[Turbo_Tim]

I will comment further later.


I don't feel that evolution is 100% correct (or probably 50% for that matter of fact) I just feel that it is the most likely theory at this point in time. I dont really think that I said at any point is it fact, its just a theory like a most scientific knowledge. I am well and open to the idea it may be wrong and disproven later, just like Galens theory of circulation. Creation is also a theory, just with a lot less evidence...

As for one species becoming another, what dictates a species?

[Zadok]

It's all good mate, I didn't mean to target you specifically, just to highlight what I find an interesting trend within parts of society. I would agree that evolution appears to be the theory with the most scientific evidence, but then again that is to be expected (think of a religious person researching their religious beliefs and 'discovering' that their belief system has the most 'evidence' to support it). As for species distinction, I'm talking about significant differences, of which I don't know enough about distinguishing features of a species to provide an operational definition that can be tested (nor could I be bothered developing such a thing), so I will only say that I don't believe a cat can ever 'evolve' into anything other than an extension of a cat (bigger, smaller, faster, smarter etc), but without developing features/traits/abilities that fall outside the traditional definition of a cat. :)

[Llewellyn]

Jesus is my Home Boy.

[husky510]

yeah if we evolved from apes... what happened to the other poor old apes out there that never evolved? Did they miss the boat?

I suppose my question is: How does something come from nothing? You may say "well how did God get there"? Well he is God and if he is God then; He always Has, and always will be.

I look at everything around me in my lounge room and everything had a 'maker' behind it. Just like there is an artist behind every painting.

The bible says we are made in the image of God...!!! That makes us a superior race.. I beleive this, as people say, "Wow" a dolphin is so intelligent, they are so clever.... Its funny, i don't remember seeing a dolphin build a skyscraper or a rocket to go to the moon. Thats because God has put his creating ability in us... we as humans are not happy unless we are creating and developing. We are only satisfied from being productive and not idle in our lives.

[odysseyesm]

I just don't think it's true.

I had a discussion with one of the grad engineers at work about it. I asked him as an engineer how come when he did his degree he was taught to not believe things unless they came from a credible source. I suggested to him that the more independant references in your work, arguably, the more credible it is.
I then asked him then how come all the stuff about christianity basically comes from the one source yet he believes it totally?

It's just like L Ron and his Scientology, or the flying spaghetti monster.....
As a product of a catholic upbringing, baptisim, schools, church etc I think the hypocrosy and duality of the priests, nuns etc is the straw that breaks the camels back.

[Zadok]

I think a big mistake some people make is believing that God is religion. Personally I can't stand religion. But I do believe in God. We all have a choice to make though, and personally it doesn't worry me in the slightest what someone else thinks, as long as they don't feel they have to justify their beliefs to me by shoving it down my throat.

[banana]

sadly we are at an age where GOD has to adapt to humanity. we know too much that we THINK religion n god isn't a necessity as most of us are living comfortable lives to a point where we don't need religion or GOD anymore (were TOO good for it). there is a solid reason y religion existed and still exists in humanity, Religion is what guided us, gave us morals, ethics, knowledge n hope. Fascinating how Darth had the same mind as me.. it doesn't cost a penny to believe in god. who knows u might die and there could be a person called GOD. if u didn't ur pretty much fuked lol. with all the bad things going on within the catholic church. priests r humans too they can sin just like us but that shouldn't be the reason 2 dis the whole church.

its sad but like the past, global disasters will continue to occur and when we start suffering that is when we'll think again.

Scientology = its just a prime example of when ppl think too much they start to side track

were just too comfortable like me lying on a couch with my laptop n a cup a hot chocolate, i don't need God now I'm busy lol

[Turbo_Tim]

I agree that religion existed as a guide. It was a guide in times when things really weren't understood. It put forward a plausible reason why suddenly the side of a hill fell off and killed half a village, it was gods will. Unfortunately the (western?) church has fallen behind the times and failed to update their theories in a time when a lot more is understood.

I also agree that god (faith) and religion (religiosity) are two completely different concepts and can exist independently or together. Some people believe in a god without following the strict rules of the scripture while others just like the order religion gives.
I personally have no faith in a god, its not something that is in me or something that I feel that need to have. I am happy that way. I am sure there are others like me.

I personally have no reason to follow a religion. I feel I am well enough equipped and educated to make my own moral and ethical decisions and do not need to adopt the values of an organisation.

As you said however, it doesn't cost a penny to have faith but you can sure bet it costs a pretty penny to be strictly religious...

[banana]

i understand there abit outdated interms of theories... maybe they have the answers. many organisations and secret societies have secrets which is what drives them. maybe its stuff we don't need to know. maybe there are aliens out in space but they're not telling us cause we humans wont stop trying to interact with them and by mistake they could invade us kill us all lol. just an example.

but what your saying is based on while ur alive.... people take religion for a better life after death

we all die at some stage

what if u died...

what would happen to u?

[husky510]

Actually 'Jesus' hated religion. He couldn't stand it!!!! Another word for religion is 'tradition'!

For example. What if i told my wife every morning at 7am i will talk to her for 1 minute and repeat the words 'your the best wife in the world' over and over for maybe 30 times and then get up and walk away and not do that until 7 am the next morning. What sort of a relationship is that???? A sad one... and one my wife would not like.

Now catholism is the same.... we go to mass without talking to God the whole week say a bunch of hail mary's and leave church and that's it... the duty is done!!!!

well unfortunatley, you may call yourself a christian for doing that, but christianity is having a relationship with Jesus... like talking to your best mate over a beer!

If you beleive their is a God then you have to determine who is the most reliable source! I chose Jesus! Why??? He is the only one that rose from the dead... every other source died!!!! But Jesus rose from the dead and accended into heaven 40 days later.

You may think, well how do you prove that he rose again.... well, its documented prove that he did. If you gave easter eggs on easter sunday a couple of weeks ago.. beleive it or not your celebrating the resurrection of Jesus... and if you don't believe he did, then why give easter eggs?? It represents new life... we were given life through Jesus when he died on Good Friday and rose 3 days later to save us from sin and death.

Same with Christmas... when God sent his only son Jesus! We all celebrate that as well, infact most of the world does.... why... cause it happened.

[Turbo_Tim]

Yeah Husky, I think what you described with the catholic example was what I was suggesting, people who are religious but not really spirtual. They follow the religion, but there faith in a god is not that strong/existant.

As for easter, I gave my gf and a box of chocolates and a white chocolate bilby. I think thats not too hypocritical. If I gave her nothing it would be too much trouble, even if she is neither religious or spirtual.


As for the afterlife, can I really believe in there is a heaven or hell without believing in god or religion. I think that argument is just really null and void for ME. Some feel there is an god and an afterlife so it is something that have to work towards to achieving. If I was wrong, well then bugger, I was wrong. I can see the merit in the 'insurance policy', but the on that theory how can one know they are prescribing to the 'right' theory. Who knows what is the right theory, are you going to get to the afterlife and discover the mormons were right after and their way of worship was the only right one...

Don't worry, im not some sort of relgion/god hater, I just feel it has no relevance for me. I dont feel the need to belong to an organised religion and I do not feel any connection or presence of a higher being.

[bunnybash]

This is one of the most civilised discussions i have seen on this topic... Well done lads!

[husky510]

totally agree with your concept...

When i became a christain i didn't need god either. I was catholic and a good one at that.. but never really knew Jesus as my lord and saviour. I had an extremely good life. Great mum and dad, great family, financially stable... I didn't need God... but i did realise i was a sinner. Now i never murdered anyone but i had broken enough of the commandments to be giulty of sin. I had lied, stolen, looked at women with a wandering eye.. and thats just 3 of the commandments i had broken. So how was a guilty person like me going to get to heaven???? If God is a 'good' judge... which he is... I would be guilty of these sins and heaven was not the place i was going to. "BUT", lets pretend i am in a court house and God has said i am guilty of my sins and hell is where i was destined... then from the back of the court a man comes down and says... "I will pay for his sins and i will do the time for him"!!!

I would instantly think "you beauty", " I have a way out"!!!

That man was jesus, he payed the price for my sin on the cross when he died and now all ofa sudden "SIN" is not what sends people to hell. There is only one thing stopping you going to heaven and is excepting Jesus as lord and savior.

So I looked at that and thought... how easy is that!!!! So thats what made me decide to be a christian... I had to admit i was a sinner and admitted i needed a saviour because if i think i am gooing to get into heaven because i am a "good person".... well thats just self rightousness... i wanted Gods righteousness!!!!

[bunnybash]

If i literally do not believe in a god or heaven or hell, that info is useless to me! :)

[husky510]

absolutely true bunnybash, just thought i would share what my beleifs are and how they came about.

Like i said, If you decide, hey, there is a God... you have to determine the most reliable source thats all... and thats how i determined mine!

[Frogman]

You guys do know the bible as we know it today was censored by king James in the 1600s... It omitted a lot of information to make it more plausible..

And as for Scientology... Who in their right mind would follow a religion that was written by a bloke who wrote nothing but fiction?

[Zadok]

Actually, from what I've heard the King James is about the closest word for word translation available. My father is very interested in this type of thing and has a King James bible himself.

[banana]

many people are mistaken by the texts inside the bible. the bible is a book that guides us. its an interpretation of what people saw and thought at that time. U would be a total idiot to possibly believe everything the bible says word by word. its those stupid, newly formed dominations of Christianity that do this and it gives me the shits. i don't think religion is important. i believe if u come to a dilemma always ask yourself " what would Jesus have done" and if u can change ur actions and thoughts from bad to good.... u'll feel good. dont expect that only faith is gonna take u to heaven, u must take also take the lost sheep's back to the Shepard and ull be rewarded with 72 virgins oh shit thats from the Quran.

just a Q.. what happened to all the people that were born before Christ? how were they sorted? heaven n hell wasn't finished yet?

[bunnybash]

i might chime in now... I actually have a degree in Theology hahahaha yup...

anyway that King James stuff was rubbish...
King James ordered the translation from Latin to English... but the bible was originally written in Greek and Hebrew, so to try to translate from the Latin was a waste of time... if you want the best translations here are a couple to look for

TNIV (it includes the gender and case from the Greek, which is very helpful)
NRSV

If you want accuracy that is the best thing next to learning Ancient Greek and Hebrew, which I can tell is a BITCH to do (well i found it hard anyways, but i did get there!!!) ... anyway till you can read the bible in greek and hebrew... probably not worth arguing :)

no academic would EVER consider the King James as the most accurate method though... it's a myth created and perpetrated by the Church of England and various other groups who are not actually interested in linguistics but instead want to make sure that there is no change....

[husky510]

just a Q.. what happened to all the people that were born before Christ? how were they sorted? heaven n hell wasn't finished yet?[/QUOTE]

As far a the bible is concerned Adam and Eve were around 6 thousand years ago. Satan was thrown out of heaven well before then so hell has been around for a long time. Satan and a 1/3 of the angels tried to team up and overthrow God but tthat was never goingg to happen so hell was designed for him and his demons. Heaven has been around as long as God has been... which as far as the bible says 'forever'.

[trevski]

As far a the bible is concerned Adam and Eve were around 6 thousand years ago. Satan was thrown out of heaven well before then so hell has been around for a long time. Satan and a 1/3 of the angels tried to team up and overthrow God but tthat was never goingg to happen so hell was designed for him and his demons. Heaven has been around as long as God has been... which as far as the bible says 'forever'.

Nice fairytale...

I can understand people believing in that 100-200+ years ago because most living in that time were relatively un-educated (don't forget these people thought the earth was flat) and were indoctrinated and brainwashed by generations of religious tradition. Archaeological evidence supporting the theory of evolution was yet to be discovered or completely understood (scientific theories require evidence, not works of fiction as their basis).

Adam and Eve rocked up to the party way late if they "were around 6000 years ago". There is fossil evidence to suggest that the genus Homo (including modern humans; including all rcolt drivers) is up to 2.3-2.4 million years old and that modern Human (Homo Sapien) are 200 000 years old. Omo_remains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omo_remains)

You don't need "faith" to believe in tangible evidence demonstrating evolution... You need blind faith to believe in God.

[DamoMcTitz]

just a Q.. what happened to all the people that were born before Christ? how were they sorted? heaven n hell wasn't finished yet.

Heaven wasnt "open for business" at that stage. You might wanna head to church at easter to geta better explanation - or check out Mel Gibsons "The Passion of the CHrist".

or for music lovers = Pearl Jams "given to fly" on the excellent album Yield will give the same message.

love to park the colt up close to the entrance on sundays after the car wash :)

[DamoMcTitz]

Pearl Jam - given to Fly

He could’ve tuned in, tuned in
But he tuned out
A bad time, nothing could save him
Alone in a corridor, waiting, locked out
He got up outta there, ran for hundreds of miles
He made it to the ocean, had a smoke in a tree
The wind rose up, set him down on his knee

A wave came crashing like a fist to the jaw
Delivered him wings, "Hey, look at him now"
Arms wide open with the sea as his floor
Oh, power, oh

He's.. flying
Whole…
High.. wide, oh

He floated back down 'cause he wanted to share
His key to the locks on the chains he saw everywhere
But first he was stripped and then he was stabbed
By faceless men, well, fuckers
He still stands

And he still gives his love, he just gives it away
The love he receives is the love that is saved
And sometimes is seen a strange spot in the sky
A human being that was given to fly

High.. flying
Oh, oh
High.. flying
Oh, oh
He’s…flying
Oh, oh

[LG1]

Actually 'Jesus' hated religion. He couldn't stand it!!!! Another word for religion is 'tradition'!

For example. What if i told my wife every morning at 7am i will talk to her for 1 minute and repeat the words 'your the best wife in the world' over and over for maybe 30 times and then get up and walk away and not do that until 7 am the next morning. What sort of a relationship is that???? A sad one... and one my wife would not like.

Now catholism is the same.... we go to mass without talking to God the whole week say a bunch of hail mary's and leave church and that's it... the duty is done!!!!

well unfortunatley, you may call yourself a christian for doing that, but christianity is having a relationship with Jesus... like talking to your best mate over a beer!

If you beleive their is a God then you have to determine who is the most reliable source! I chose Jesus! Why??? He is the only one that rose from the dead... every other source died!!!! But Jesus rose from the dead and accended into heaven 40 days later.

You may think, well how do you prove that he rose again.... well, its documented prove that he did. If you gave easter eggs on easter sunday a couple of weeks ago.. beleive it or not your celebrating the resurrection of Jesus... and if you don't believe he did, then why give easter eggs?? It represents new life... we were given life through Jesus when he died on Good Friday and rose 3 days later to save us from sin and death.

Same with Christmas... when God sent his only son Jesus! We all celebrate that as well, infact most of the world does.... why... cause it happened.

I am in total agreement.
also when we write the date, we are in effect sighing a document confessing Christs birth, even though we are no longer in the Hebraic calender but the romanistic its still a historical documented fact, Jesus existed and still does.

a good way to under stand the Bible is to have a relationship with its author, anyone can go and read it and study it but still remain spiritually in the dark.
to answer the original posters question i feel Christianity has a bad rap for a few reasons, number 1 is religions that are not really christian, Jesus rebuked the pharisees ( The teachers of the law) as white washed tombs filled with dead mens bones) basically saying outwardly you look white and holly but inwardly you are dead.

if one is lead by religion its a dead end. but when you take up a relationship with the living God Jesus then wonderful things will happen.

i am now a Christian , saved by the grace of God.Jesus is my saviour (and i am not week minded an other poster wrongly suggests people who beleive in God are.

there was a time i wouldn't be caught dead associating with a christian but that was my mind set then and my understanding probably because i never new the living God, and therefore the resentment.

and as far as evolution goes don't get me started, that is the biggest lie ever! if you really think about the intracellular in the design of life let alone the human body all of its elements had to be perfect at the start, you couldn't have your brain or heart develop a few thousand years later, it all had to be good to go, and the female :p, and food and shelter and etc...

don'treally want to preach here but that's part of the problem, people rape kids and they say the church on tv and people automatically associate it with Christians, there is nothing christian about these organizations biblicaly.

you shall know them by the fruit that they bear for a good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

don't listen to all the hype, investigate God for your self's. when you see a structure you see a designer and a architect, a engineer and so on even a turbo! you may not understand how it was made but there it is!

how much more awesomely are you made. think about it.

just because we cant figure out how God made it doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

have a look around.

and that's why i think Christianity is hated by some, because of impostors, and yes the devil because just as there is a God there is a devil and you can see his influence every place.

since you asked..:)

LG1

[ColtRt]

LG1, Let me tell you mate. That reply that you put up their shows some guts and character!

As a fellow Christian and believer in our living God I have to give you HUGE cudos for that and more importantly my friend GOD is smiling!

Keep strong in your faith, it's inspirational!

[bunnybash]

this about sums it up for where i am at...

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[Turbo_Tim]

And around goes the religious circle jerk again.

Back to evolution, parts developed to give us higher function, separating us from the lower order animals.


And just like the video above, I am happy that I don't need to worry about people judging my beliefs and will therefore see no reason to post again....

[<G>]

why this thread on a car forum, how retarded, which brings me to religion - science for dumb people

god is for suckers

<G>
NO GODS, NO MASTERS, NO RESPECT, NO TOLERANCE.

[ommeh]

I'm a non believer to a certain extent~ I dont believe in any faith BUT i do believe that there is something greater. Like the feeling that how can we be the only things in the universe? Its not possible, we just havnt found anyone yet~ For me personally, i think that karma has a big part in my life. I was born into a buddist family and its something big in our culture. I may not pray or go to the temple anymore but i still believe that every good deed you do will be returned to you in this life or the next. At the end of the day, i know that if my morals are right and that my intentions are good then my soul is clean~ Ofcourse we all do bad shit once in a while but hey you only live once right?

Kudos to all the believers as i think believing in something (even if its religion) and standing by it no matter what takes guts~

[alba]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_stT1wAC3hKw/S7j9WF6BGkI/AAAAAAAAAHM/3N_QYdae2Aw/s1600/lol-jesus-brb.jpg

[LG1]

hmmm, he says he is a Christian? guy in vid ..

so many do and so few are. i think i summed it up in my post religion has given or should i say man has given God a bad name.

mans wisdom is foolishness in the eyes of the Lord.

i wont use this forum to enter into a argument about God when certain individuals don't believe in there maker, and mock Christianity. i was answering a post .

if people are mad at priests don't blame God, its mans sinful nature at work here not God.
this individual mocks God, swears and makes a mockery by calling himself a christian. foolish.

he mentions the crusaders , they were not Christians they belonged to a religious system!killing, raping - that's not Christianity so don't call it that ! but like i said in my earlier post this is one of the things that gives Christians a bad name (religion).

no christian is perfect, i have struggles just like you guys and i am not better than you, but i am saved...

I am saved of my sins, i have received the free gift Christ paid on the cross for them.

do i sin,yes because if anyone says they don't they lie, but i have forgiveness, not a free pass to sin but i will not be judged in my sins as i am a new creation in Christ, that's the difference.

i could talk till i am blue in the face, but until each individual finds out the love of Jesus for them self's and stops attacking real Christianity then it will just be a never ending marry go round.i used to be on one too.

real Christians wont deliberately hurt you, or steal from you but would rather sacrifice for you.

people seem to love evil and hate good even more now a days.

i wonder why that is.

any way i wont get into a post war . But if anyone has a genuian question regarding God feel free to pm me.

God bless all you guys and thanks for putting up with me and being so gracious and helping me with all my noob questions regarding my awesome little car.

by the way my colt is faster than yours! :p

LG1