Not Recommended But Interesting...

[Steve-B]

Hey there guys,
Well a mate of mine ( qualified mechanic ) stuck our heads under the hood and had alook at the colt setup. From what we could see the Ecu is controlling the wastegate via a vaccum switch under the air intake. There are 2 vaccum hoses coming from this switch, one goes to the waste gate and the other connects to the air intake just before the turbo. so we went to testing mode...
1. Disconnect the wires connected to the vaccum switch.
result: no power, it revv'd out, but the turbo never came in. ( no engine light )
2. Re-connect the switch.
result: The turbo came in at normal rpm and the engine felt the same.
3. disconnect the vaccum line that goes to the wastegate. Basically not letting the ecu via the vaccum line tell the wastegate to bleed boost.
result: Holding the rev's at 2grand, letting the handbrake go with a quick take-off......the colt went off its nuts, chirped 2nd and was a demon with no regrets. ( no engine light )

Re-action. My mate and I are going to acquire a boost gauge and see what the max boost is with the vaccum disconnected. Also we are going to try and get some dyno runs happening and see what the power at the wheels difference is as well.

images below to try and explain the location and "switch" mentioned.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/Tam363/Boost2-1.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/Tam363/Boost-1.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/Tam363/Boost3-1.jpg

thats what we have so far....

[lovecolt]

Good stuff Steve. keep us updated with the boost gauge metering. ;)

[ColtVerR]

wow!!! thats really interesting :D our cvr slowly converting into a mini monster!!

[jmt]

My car gets a nice over boost of 0.8 bar at first but then goes down to 0.5, and even 0.4 if you go all the way to the end of 6500 rpm feeling very weak push.
I've been playing with those two short U-shaped hoses also. It looks like there is a metal restriction inside the thick plastic tube where the thick hose enters (or exits, still don't know which way). If you press stron on one or the other you get less boost. Looks like that vacuum switch close connection of the tubes when rpm is high. I guess that the less restriction you get more turbo boost. I've got a boost gauge that foes from -1 to +1.5 bar.. I tried to connect one to the other and.... !!!! The meter went all the way to the end over 1.5+++. I was on 3rd gear and one wheel started to loose grid while I was pushed like the car was half as heavy!!! But... soon after that could not go over 4000 rpm and light came on and stayed that way until the next day, even after putting everything in it's place! The ECU will realized by mass air flow meter in air filter and measuring oxygen left with sensor in exhaust system. I don't know how to fool the ecu and get a steady 1 bar with a small over boost of 1.5, which should be nice values while in the safe side. Does anybody knows something else?.

[Steve-B]

Hey Jmt.
The metal plate where both hose's attached is electronically controlled by the ecu via readings from the vacuum lines. The one that I removed goes to the wastegate. The other we think retrieve's information about the air about to enter the turbo as it is connect to the inlet hose. By removing the tube we did we are letting the ecu think it is connected to the wastegate when it isnt. Thus the boost can go to the full amount possible of the turbo. Based on the size we gauge it could be no more than 15psi per say. We had the car running without the 1 hose for about 20-30mins with no warning or engine light at all. Bar having a boost gauge and a dyno to find out real numbers we were basing our findings on the reaction of the vehicle put through the same conditions. ie held the rpm at 2grand on a flat with handbrake and descent take-off. In answer to your question about holding 1bar of boost, the vacuum line that i have showed you to remove, if you have a boost controller and connect that line, to the controller then back to the wastegate you should be able to hold said booost, but when the mivec kicks in and changes the vacuum in that line, im not sure how you could bypass than. Something we can look into.
Cheers
Steve

[jmt]

Sorry, Steve, I'm not understanding well enough. One hose is thinner than the other and doesn't have clamps. You removed that thin one, that goes to waste gate and orders to bypass exhaust to pipe instead of to turbo?
I think that BOV blows to turbo input when not stepping on the pedal, after spooling turbo. So compressed air that can't enter the engine goes back to input. In this stage there is a small boost over atmospheric at turbo input and that electronic sensor, where the two hoses connect, will detect it closing the way to wastegate, creating a vacuum which in turn will bypass turbo to exhaust pipe. So when you removed the thin one was no vacuum there all the time and bypass did not occur. How does it sound to you? Is this what you mean?
I thought that MIVEC was the variable control of the admission valves, but only below 3000 rpm. This will improve mileage at low revs but MIVEC does not work at high rpm, I think.
See if we find out more....

[Raymond6]

I don't know anything about this Turbo Stuff so this is my idea for regulating the boost

Sounds to me that this hose needs to be connected or you end up with an overboost situation.

No problem get a new hose the same length cut it in the middle place a tap in the middle. You can get small taps for air from most air tool suppliers.

Now open the tap about half way and see what happens.
If too much boost close it a bit too little open it a bit to you come to a suitable outcome.

Or get a hose the same leangth and drill out the centre of a brass bung that can be forced into the hose say drill a 2mm dia hole through the centre of the bung. If not enough boost drill it out to 2.5mm and so on until you achive the desired result.

[Steve-B]

JMT,
there are 2 vacuum pipes yes, the air flow one might be sensing the density of the air, but i doubt much pressure is left over to be put back through the system. By removing the thin unclamped line, you are stopping the vacuum pulling the wastegate closed gradually at high rpm. The MIVEC actually comes in at 4,500 if im not mistaken and the wastegate then drops the psi down from .8bar to .4bar. We removed the vacuum line and the result was that the boost stayed on for the full length of the power band, and no engine light appeared.

Raymond6,
Mate I understand what you are saying, but there is no way that is possible because you havent taken into the account that the vacuum pressure changes as the rpm goes up and the MIVEC kicks in, and that bleeds the boost through the wastegate. By putting a tap or device in the line you are mearly tampering with the standard pressure in that line. you might as well buy a boost controller cause at least that will be more useful and easier to measure than what you have suggested.
cheers
Steve

[jmt]

MIVEC stands for "Mitsubishi Innovative Valve Electronic Control" will works just at low revs to improve fuel efficiency by adjusting the timing and lift of intake valves with 3 lifters per cylinder. MIVEC works below 3000 rpm and does not kick in when reaching high revs, but kicks out instead.
The reason why boost goes down might be just that ECU tells waste gate to open at those revs, because turbo is big enough to provide more air than .5 of boost at 6000 rpm.
Is interesting what Raymond says, I've got to try it. How if I put a T with a long and thin hose opened at the end? We could adjust it cutting different lengths. Sounds OK?

[Steve-B]

Jmt.... ( i dont think you get what im saying )
"The MIVEC system features separate cam profiles for high and low engine speed modes, which translates to higher maximum power and increased usable torque in the widest variety of driving conditions. Under low-rev conditions, MIVEC selects the smaller cam profile, which provides stable combustion and lower emissions. But when the throttle is opened wide and engine speed increased, MIVEC selects the larger cam profile and allows the valves a longer duration and longer stroke, thus providing maximum and efficient power and torque over a broader range of engine speeds."
Thus when MIVEC kicks in IE the larger cam comes into play, the ecu Via the vacuum line opens the wastegate and bleeds the boost. Please dont talk about the systems we have in the cars if you know nothing about them. These forums are for people to learn, and by posting " what you think you know " doesnt help anyone....it just confuses them.

[jmt]

You look very sure, Steve. I'm not that sure and don't want to start an argument. I read what Mitsu says about MIVEC, before posting. I understood MIVEC works ONLY at low revs and has to do ONLY with valve lifting, not boost. Sorry if I'm wrong! We will learn a little here and there. Hope so!

[Steve-B]

no worries, maybe we should both read up more on it before going further, as I am no mechanic. I will keep going with what I have found / learnt so far and get back to you all with dyno results when they become available.

[hendo]

any update

[jmt]

I've been trying to increase turbo boost, easier mod to increase torque and power on any turbo car. I keep getting a cut-off over 4000 rpm and a yellow light after a couple of tries. Mitsu ECU is too smart for me!

[juzzo84]

JMT:
What method are you using to adjust the amount of boost being made?
Steve B & myself removed the vacuum line directly too the waste gate from the wastegate control switch (located below the inlet hoses). By doing this we have tricked the ecu into believing that it is still controlling the waste gate even though it is not!, by doing this it gave us considerably more power right through the rev range. Initally we did try removing the ecu connector to the wastegate control switch, but by doing this it prevented the car from boosting at all! Neither of the two methods trialed caused the ENGINE light to signal.
Steve B & i are working on some very minor performance enhancments to generate maximun performance for the least amount of $$$$. So stay tuned till we get some dyno print-out of what we are working on.

Juz

[27AME]

If I try this is there a chance it's bad for the engine?

I just need to beat my mates chipped polo once! :D :P

[Steve-B]

Hey 27ame,
Mate by removing the wastegate from the equation you are letting it boost to its maximum capacity. By the size of the turbo it has been guesstimated at about 15psi. When the ecu reads for the o2 sensor and others in the engine that more boost is coming throu it alters the maps and feeds more petrol in to counter act the air. ( very loose description ) My advise would be to remove the hose as shown below, practise abit because it does change the characteristic of the car and go from there. No doubt long periods of time with the turbo running at full capacity would not help the longevity of it. But i dont see how small runs here or there would alter or destroy the engine in any way.

[27AME]

so is it max boost through the whole rev range? In other words we won't have the drop off after 4000rpm?

Also going by what you said, wouldn't it take time for the ecu to alter the maps? Like you won't be able to take the vacuum hose off, start the engine and drive off because the maps don't change that quickly. Get me? It's like when you get a different petrol and the ecu has to change itself to suit, it doesn't happen instantly though. Or am I on the wrong wave length and this matter is completely different? :P

[hendo]

i just installed a boost guage and my car doesnt realy drop of boost like every 1 says. it goes up to 12 psi and only drops back to 10psi and will stay like that pretty much up to redline. i may try this mod to see what happens to the boost curve

[|2colt]

Yeh thats right it doesnt drop much..my dyno run showed that as well. I guess what people want is no drop off at all and to be able to run the turbo at its full capacity:)

[Steve-B]

2 27ame...
Mate they are different things. When you put petrol in that the car doesnt like, it reads the sensors and notes there are knocks due to poor fuel and will retard your settings so to avoid detanation. When you put different fuel in, the ecu ( in self learning mode ) will advance everything back. As with boost, with the wastegate not bleeding boost ( cause you have disabled that ability by removing the vaccum line ) you will have maximum boost for the whole rev range as the wastegate wont be able to bleed it out via the vaccum line from the ecu. So it is possible to hold 15psi+ (*) through the whole rev range. I didnt feel drop off at all cause the tyres wouldnt stop shreading, even in third gear. The ecu notes the increase in pressure, thus increases the fuel to the mix. It adjusts the maps on the fly, by reading the info it is given by the sensors...its a very quick and smart system.
hope that has answered your question.
( * ) we dont know the exact maximum pressure the turbo can achieve.
p.s. Yes, you can remove the vaccum line, turn the car on and hit maximum boost, cause thats what we did and what we saw and experienced.

[27AME]

Did you take the hose off completely?

Or did you leave one end on like you have in the picture?

[jmt]

OK that you get more boost all over the range of revs. My gauge reads BAR not psi. Is it +14psi equal +1bar?
First, stock no mod engine, I got +0.7 over boost when stepping on the pedal, but went down to only +0.4 at the end of 6500rpm.
There are two thin hoses that enter the sensor on top gear box. One comes from turbo input and the other, a little thicker and with two clamps, from turbo output. I disconnected the thinest one, from both side or just one doesn't matter, and did get just a bit of more boost, not much really.
What have I done to get more boost? I'll say much more!
This:
I decided to play more and got two T connectors for that diameter and two short pieces of new hoses and connected input to output, while still having both connected to sensors, in parallel. I got a huge over boost when I stepped on at 3000 rpm, that took my gauge all the way to the end, over 1.5 bar!!! while wheels wanted to slip on 3rd gear over 60 mph!!!! Felt like the car was half as heavy!!!! A real rocket like if it were a good motorbike!!!
Of course yellow light came on and car would not go over 4000 after that test.
Regarding fuel and knocking detector... has anybody tried to use high octane to avoid it? We have regular 95ron and extra 98ron. What if I get those +7 points octane increaser with those expensive liquids to mix with the 98 fuel? We could get 105 ron octanes and avoid the ECU to retard ignition, which in turn, will overheat exhaust valves and pistons. Maybe this way ECU will self learn to run this fuel...
What you think? Did anybody try additives to fuel or, better, airplane high octane fuel? There is one with 130 RON, I was told...

[Steve-B]

Hey Guys,
Just abit of an update, slapped a temp boost gauge on to get some reading and so forth on what this topic was started about.
Now as stated before with this hose removed we felt a change in the car. With the boost gauge tied in we did get some results
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/Tam363/Boost3-1.jpg
with this removed the boost went from 11psi to 13psi ( 11psi being the standard ) and 13psi when this hose was removed, BUT at 11psi and then 13psi but in each test the boost does go back down to 9-8psi.
THEN......
we removed the back hose.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/Tam363/2boost.jpg
with this hose removed, we took it easy on the first few corners and then hit it really hard........the boost gauge hit 20psi on the way up....then we hit boost cut. we were quite shocked. we tryed to get boost up again and try and hold it @ 15psi with the accelerator but again it would go to high, hit boost cut and from then on the ecu retarded itself and wouldnt let any boost through and was a mighty slug. No engine light thou.
thus our findings so far...

[27AME]

If it is still dropping back to 8 - 9 psi even without the ECU having any control, sounds like the turbo just runs out of puff. By they way, the reason you couldn't hold the boost at 15psi is because with that hose off it would be free boosting.

[Steve-B]

i was trying to hold the boost @ 15psi with my right foot....which i know is impossible. maybe i didnt explain that well enough.

[jmt]

Yes, ECU does have control of everyting in our car. Just too smart for us, should I say for me!
By the way... Turbo is big enough and does not run out of puff.

[jmt]

ECU send to safe mode Lanzer EVO also. See here:
http://www.lancerregister.com/faq_f02.php

[27AME]

How can you say our turbo isn't too small? Do you know how much boost it can run personally? I'm betting you don't, seeming as though the model of turbo that comes stock was only recently identified. It is very small, I wouldn't expect it to be able to run efficiently much over 15psi, if it can at all.

[Steve-B]

as much as id like to keep playing with it, without knowing what hoses do what Im not really prepared to keeping going til i get my colt handbook. Will be looking at upgrading the intake system and maybe testing some exhausts as well.

[jmt]

Yes, 27ame. I do know how much boost I got. ECU sends car to safe mode afterwards. Lost ur bet!
Of course turbos could be bigger (and then slower to spool), to keep very gigh boost even at high rpm's, if ECU will let more boost. Not the case.

[27AME]

thats not what I'm talking about... read my post again and answer the questions.

[jmt]

I had. Had U?

[Steve-B]

You guys can set up another thread if you want, and play tiddley winks there. But this thread i made is only for constructive conversations regarding the subject which I have talked about. And the results and your guys input about it. Cheers.

[jmt]

Yes, Steve. You are right. Let see if we can really "share" knowledges and experiences. I have been sharing my tests and, of course, want to see here what others do and know.
I do NOT want to argue but, right or wrong, I had to say that turbo is big enough after reading it was not. Just my opinion.
Talking about sharing... Here is a good and easy to read turbo's Q&A:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/faqs.html#t6

[fuse01]

i think what we need is a eletronic boost controller like the evc 6 which can map throttle, rpm and speed to boost to over come the ecu.

[Pete]

this was a really interesting read. knew it wouldn't be long till some colts started getting modified and lost quicker.

i think an electronic boost controller and a new ecu and the colt is going to be one fast little car

[Chipokae]

as much as id like to keep playing with it, without knowing what hoses do what Im not really prepared to keeping going til i get my colt handbook. Will be looking at upgrading the intake system and maybe testing some exhausts as well.

i believe the hoses are responsible for controlling the wastegate actuator (i think thats the name). by removing the hose, you are not letting the actuator open the wastegate to exhaust which will make your turbo spin faster and faster. thus, more boost is produced and ecu shits itself. this is my limited understanding of whats going on here and my prediction of whats acutally happening. feel free to correct me if im wrong.

[Steve-B]

Well Chipo, When i removed both hoses from the left hand side and left them on on the right, i was getting 22psi. So i would say you are close to the money on that one.

[fighter]

Hey Guys,
Just abit of an update, slapped a temp boost gauge on to get some reading and so forth on what this topic was started about.
Now as stated before with this hose removed we felt a change in the car. With the boost gauge tied in we did get some results
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/Tam363/Boost3-1.jpg
with this removed the boost went from 11psi to 13psi ( 11psi being the standard ) and 13psi when this hose was removed, BUT at 11psi and then 13psi but in each test the boost does go back down to 9-8psi.
THEN......
we removed the back hose.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/Tam363/2boost.jpg
with this hose removed, we took it easy on the first few corners and then hit it really hard........the boost gauge hit 20psi on the way up....then we hit boost cut. we were quite shocked. we tryed to get boost up again and try and hold it @ 15psi with the accelerator but again it would go to high, hit boost cut and from then on the ecu retarded itself and wouldnt let any boost through and was a mighty slug. No engine light thou.
thus our findings so far...

I don't know something...if i remove only the back hose i have a boost up without problems??

[Steve-B]

no, you will have a boost up, but when the ecu reads its overboosting you will hit boost cut, and then the engine goes into safe mode.

[fuse01]

http://www.lancerregister.com/mlr_images/articles/avcrfitting/01.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/Tam363/Boost3-1.jpg



the first is a pic from EVO 8 engine bay

the 2 hoses are from the boost control solenoide valve.

it sure looks like ours!!!!

hope it helps

[Steve-B]

do you run yours with both off as in the pic ?

[fuse01]

those tubes are removed and route to the APEXI AVCR controller and the solenoide valve tubes are both capped and not used anymore.

by the way after reading your posting, it kept me thinking, maybe you need a fuel cut defender to solve the issue and also a manual boost controller.

lets discuss

[Chipokae]

has anyone thought that it might be possible to change the wastegate actuator to make it hold more before opening to exhaust? this could be a quick cheap upgrade to make more boost but not too much to make the ecu crap itself. wonder what one of these would cost... or if its even possible to do what im suggesting. because it seems steve-b is able to make more boost but cant control the upper limit of how much boost is actually made.
any ideas guys?

[Steve-B]

Hey Fuse,
just so i get this right in my head, you are running a avcr in your evo ? and instead of the 2 hoses going to the solenoide they go to the apexi and are controlled that way ?
with capping off you factory solenoid you dont get an engine light ? because the ecu would be controlling / getting readings and sending readings to the solenoide via its connection no ? and without it there it would throw up a engine light ?
Very interesting stuff this apexi avcr's, as i havent done heaps of research on them......for people this is there description.

APEXi AVC-R Boost Controller with English Manual

APEXi AVC-R BOOST CONTROLLER-BLACK EDITION

The AVC-R is a digital boost controller that allows the user to modify the boost pressure level on turbocharged vehicles. The AVC-R also uses a highly durable, fast action solenoid valve to physically control the boost. The valve movement (Boost Duty Cycle) can also be modified. This feature allows boost response adjustment for varying turbo sizes. Drag racers may want to utilize the Gear based boost control function. Aside from the basic functions above, the AVC-R has a Start Duty Setting (allows the boost to momentarily overshoot according to gear). The AVC-R also includes a Scramble Boost function which allows the user to momentarily raise or lower the boost level at the push of a button.

Raising the boost level is commonly used when an extra burst of power is needed (ex. entering a freeway). This feature can also be used in drag racing. The driver can set the main boost level to a low setting for maximum traction then, once full traction is achieved, the scramble boost can allow the vehicle to boost full power.

The AVC-R displays data in three different modes: Numerical, Analog, and Graph. Numerical Mode allows the user to monitor up to four different parameters in numbers and also shows peak hold values on demand. The Analog Mode displays up to two values in an easy to read meter style display.Peak Hold is also included in this function. The Graph Mode offers real time graph plotting with a Ghost map trace feature built in. The graph can replay movement up to 60 seconds. Comes together with the Apexi stand and all neccessary hardwares and fittings.

APEXi AVC-R also had a clear display screen that display data in three modes

Numerical : Allows owner to monitor from one to four different type of information in numbers.

Analog : It displays up to two different type of information in meter style format.

Graph : This mode display information at the real time graph plotting with ghost map trace feature.

ps, i think this also answers your question chipo.

[fuse01]

nar i dont own a evo ( i wished i had) i own a CVR

take a look at this pict to have a better understanding on how HKS EVC is installed

[Steve-B]

Hey Fuse,
with capping off you factory solenoid you dont get an engine light ?
( because the ecu would be controlling / getting readings and sending readings to the solenoide via its connection no ? )

With the drawing you gave me, i can see the boost control solenoid, and i know where the 2 hose's go. So you remove it all together cap off the connection to the incoming air reading ( air going into the turbo ), the pressure to the actuator or "wastegate". But in the image im sure there is no 2 piece from the boost control solenoid to the actuator. But thats fine, there probably is somewhere in the system and a vac line coming of the piping to the intercooler but before it. Im not sure if you can explain it to me, but why does the evc run a line to the fuel pressure regulator ? does it get a reading or send a reading. I know there isnt fuel in the line as the line goes to the intake maniford.

Fuse mate, if you can write a longer explination as i was waiting to come to work for you to explain it all to me, lol. But the image is a great help and will help no doubt in changing over to a boost controller. I can see how controllers without stepping motors wouldnt work and would be rejected by the ecu.

Do you run the apexi or hks in your cvr ?
what model / spec controller is it ?
cheers fuse, where the bloody hell were you when i started this thread. LOL.
cheers
steve

[fuse01]

hi hi i have a evc version 6 but have not installed yet as i would also like to understand how our turbo works before installation. this is my first turbo car and im trying to learn. with your discussion, i was able to get a better picture on our cvr internal so i did a bit of research during my free time to see if i can have a cheaper method of controlling boost. i do have the evc 6 manual and will forward u the link so you are in a better position to discuss this topic. what we all are trying to achieve is to have low cost and good boosting. but i have read in sone cvr owners whom upgraded to unichip, dyno shows no benifit when the car in high boost. i believe what we really need is to remap our ecu for better air fuel ratio and also throttle responds. i have tried to install the sprint booster but failed as currently they dont have a model that

[Steve-B]

hey fuse, from what i was reading about the apexi avcr's is that you can change the turbo "spool up" by telling the wastegate false readings and getting to spool up earlier. ( the plain english version ). I havent read to much into the hks evc but that option on the apexi sounds like something that could benefit our little engines very very well.
i will have to dgig up the article, but from what i can remember the turbosmart incabin manual boost controllers work by minimalising pressure in the line, making the turbo spool up hard by increasing the time the wastegate is open. I'll try and find the link / article for you.

[fuse01]

that works for our car. this is a good forum as you guys openly discuss about mod and tech stuff. our local scene, people is not openly to share about their mods .... if you have a tech manual of our cvr, it should help solve many issues of how our car works. like our ecu wiring and signal. coming back to the topic, have u tried a manual boost controller? with that and a fuel cut device, we might be able to fool the ecu to run high boost and no cel. i hope some to see some real photos of ppl whom install any e boost controller to study more into it.

[Steve-B]

hey fuse,

do you need a cvr tech manual ?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MITSUBISHI-Lancer-Colt-L200-Workshop-Manual-CD-2004_W0QQitemZ230135656331QQihZ013QQcategoryZ18422 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Turbosmart home page, check out the 1st and 4th one.
http://www.turbosmart.com.au/index.php?id=43

[Steve-B]

also some info on the HKS fuel cut defenders..
http://www.hksusa.com/info/download.asp?id=1793#
http://www.hksusa.com/images_products/L_1329.jpg

[fuse01]

maybe we need to contact turbosmart au to find out whats good for our ride...not the eletronic stuff but the manual stuff... which is cheaper:D

[Victor]

correct me if i'm wrong. after i go thought this reading did anyone check out the brabus for4, it doesn't have a wastegate which make this whole theory make sence. however i do believe the tuning of the ECU will be different in order to having the boost without blowing up the engine. but if this work, we can have 177 hp in our colt, if we uninstall the wastegate and retune our ecu

[lovecolt]

correct me if i'm wrong. after i go thought this reading did anyone check out the brabus for4, it doesn't have a wastegate which make this whole theory make sence. however i do believe the tuning of the ECU will be different in order to having the boost without blowing up the engine. but if this work, we can have 177 hp in our colt, if we uninstall the wastegate and retune our ecu

Do you mean trying on Brabus's 44's ecu on our rcolt? If it is, then i can tell you, it wouldn't work as its been tried by the euro czt guys. The engine wouldn't start up.....this is unless the czt and rcolt uses a different ecu....

[Steve-B]

without seeing the brabus layout and engine bay i cant comment, but if it is identical without a wastegate, how does the turbo spool, and open the exhaust and regulate the boost ?
the ecu wouldnt work, is pain form, its like reading a chinese instruction manual when your german.

[fuse01]

now that is funny...lolz
coming back to the turbo thingy. has anyone here installed a e boost controller beside lovecolt?

[27AME]

surely Victor means the forfour is internally gated, not externally like ours?

However, I doubt we have different turbos, the engines look identical.

[Steve-B]

lovecolt was running one for about 2 weeks, but the engine light came on and car pooped itself on the m5 if i remember correctly. He is waiting for mrt to get back with a flash for the ecu.....he is going to be waiting a loooooong time. lol. What brand boost controller did you have again lovecolt ? i think it was a greddy pro-fec.

[fuse01]

any further updates ?

[speedracer]

Hey Guys,
Just abit of an update, slapped a temp boost gauge on to get some reading and so forth on what this topic was started about.
Now as stated before with this hose removed we felt a change in the car. With the boost gauge tied in we did get some results
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/Tam363/Boost3-1.jpg
with this removed the boost went from 11psi to 13psi ( 11psi being the standard ) and 13psi when this hose was removed, BUT at 11psi and then 13psi but in each test the boost does go back down to 9-8psi.
THEN......
we removed the back hose.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w18/Tam363/2boost.jpg
with this hose removed, we took it easy on the first few corners and then hit it really hard........the boost gauge hit 20psi on the way up....then we hit boost cut. we were quite shocked. we tryed to get boost up again and try and hold it @ 15psi with the accelerator but again it would go to high, hit boost cut and from then on the ecu retarded itself and wouldnt let any boost through and was a mighty slug. No engine light thou.
thus our findings so far...

Ok I just found this post and it looks very much like a solution I had installed on my old R33 Skyline (Rest its soul).
I had a manual bleed valve / boost control valve fitted into one of those hoses by a performance workshop in Adelaide. it was basically just a tap that let the hose bleed some of the pressure out, making the boost higher.
So looking at your results...with the hose disconnect the results where much higher boost but it proved too high and the boost cut off.
So if you were to install a tap into the hose and just bleed off part of the pressure rather than all of it, then you should get a more controlled boost gain, you could then adjust the amount of bleed you allow until you get the desired boost without the cut off.
The only problem I can remember with this from my Skyline was that at 190kw at the wheels the engine got too lean and started to ping so they had to adjust the boost down until the pinging stopped. They told me that better fuel injectors would solve this and a FMIC would help too but I never got a chance to have them done.
So if anyone wants to test this out by adding a bleeder tap to the line they should find that they can get some nice boost increase withou the engine cut but you'll need to do some fine tuning. My Skyline spent half a day on the dyno doing many many runs to get the sweet spot right for it.

[speedracer]

oh yeah and heres a nice easy to read single page on manual boost control. Not for our car but the same idea goes for all turbos

http://www.well.com/user/mosk/boost.htm

[phul007]

I ran a similiar setup on the GSR , with a turbosmart boost controller which is a bleeder, you screwed it in or out depending on how much boost you wanted.


It basically told the computer/boost relief valve how much pressure was being produced by the turbo , if the pressure was released before the value then the valve would allow more boost until the pressure was reached. Very easy solution but you need a good boost gauge to limit the boost. By researching other GSR mods I found out that the limit was 15 psi so I ran 13. The car was running this for 5 years and never had a problem. Also having a 3 inch exhaust allowed the turbo to flow the extra air through as the standard exhaust just couldnt handle it.

I had to laugh when the exhaust mechanic tested the car with the new exhaust he nearly sh$t himself as it would just take off like a rocket.

[Toker]

someone mentions uprating the actuator.. I have tried this (as well as other coltclub members - on a cz-T).. one guy runs 1bar (14.3psi). mine spikes just under 1bar at roughly 0.9 and drops to 0.6 bar as the revs increase..
if you look under the heat shield on the front of the car above the exhaust, you will see this:

http://burpitt.f2s.com/images/wastegate_rod.jpg

tighten the nuts in and replace back onto engine will mean less pressure is bled off givin more boost. i gave mine about 3 full turns (ie 6 half turns - i know its obvious but when your turning it in a tight space its easy to think turning the flat side once constitutes as a turn :))

i am going to try steve-B's first test which gave him a 2psi increase. if it runs ok with that mod plus my current mods, the car will go like a train! maximize car efficiency and boost levels will rise naturally :)

I will be interested to test the 2nd line tho, where huge boost increase amounts are found.. I am thinking the bleed off would be the easy option for this, a T with a vent to air.. did you try this steve-b? or just unplug it and get ECU limp mode and then decide to call it a rest for the time being?

thanks :)

[Duke]

Next week I will install my bleeding valve on the airway to wastegate but as I have the bonalume kit the ECU is already tricked for overboosting.

My trouble is decreasing boost over 5500 rpm to 0.7 bar.

I think valve will bleed enough to decrease wastegate action to get 1.0 bar overall. And by looking at my AFR gauge and adjusting fuel regulator , it will work... I hope. :D

What u say? :confused:

[Toker]

just tested the 'safe' 2psi gain technique.. didn't see a rise in boost :)

will you not gain more boost in low revs though Duke?

[Duke]

just tested the 'safe' 2psi gain technique.. didn't see a rise in boost :)

will you not gain more boost in low revs though Duke?

I already have 15+ psi boost till 5500 rpm but need to keep it as it is.

As the valve will keep the wastegate less active I hope it will work but not sure :(

[Toker]

duke how do you turn up the fuel regulator, or is that part of the bonalume kit?

thanks

[red czt racer]

Toker - its probably youre dodgy boost gauge thats the problem.

[Macca]

the fuel regulator can be adjusted by the ECU, but i doubt its by much

[Duke]

duke how do you turn up the fuel regulator, or is that part of the bonalume kit?

thanks

Bonalume comes with an adjustable fuel regulator

[red czt racer]

just tried the '2psi gain' modification on my UK Colt czT - seems better 2000-4000 rpm but a lot worse 4000rpm +